This is the thread for the discussion between AronRa and Justice Frangipane.
It's not your standard "debate" thread, with any specific format. I just decided it might be a good idea to make a separate, user restricted thread for this, particularly because Justice Frangipane (wisely, given the circumstances) suggested that he wanted to focus specifically on AronRa and his questions in one thread.
If either of you, Aron and Justice, are opposed to this, just let me know. I will not close the "Facebook Sheeple" thread - unless you both desire to do that.
I want to start by posting the entirety of Justice's last post in the original thread, as he there outlines in what manner he desires the conversation to be conducted:
Enjoy!
It's not your standard "debate" thread, with any specific format. I just decided it might be a good idea to make a separate, user restricted thread for this, particularly because Justice Frangipane (wisely, given the circumstances) suggested that he wanted to focus specifically on AronRa and his questions in one thread.
If either of you, Aron and Justice, are opposed to this, just let me know. I will not close the "Facebook Sheeple" thread - unless you both desire to do that.
I want to start by posting the entirety of Justice's last post in the original thread, as he there outlines in what manner he desires the conversation to be conducted:
<i></i>Justice Frangipane said:I suppose it would be a good idea to request a few things here before we really get into it. There are a few things that help me determine a waste of effort in any type of conversation. (Aron, I'm sure you have your list)
1. Avoiding questions and topic shifting. I think that each point should be reasoned from start to finish as best as possible, without leaving large unattended gaps.
2. Wild assertions, my favorite is that oh so familiar "If so and so doesn't believe what I believe then they don't understand ANY science, ergo are useless in every scientific task" When it comes down to it, what I believe, and you believe about origins plays very very little into real empirical science. (neither creation nor evolution fall into empirical science)
3. The assumption that either theory must be perfect to be plausible. Evolution has holes in it, so does creationism. I don't, nor will I pretend that a theory or a belief in something is something that can be scientifically proven. Yes, we validate scientific theories as plausible, but plausible does not mean proven.
4. Personal attacks, honestly, I don't expect that here, but I'll say it anyway. Not all creationists are only faith based, some do have brains. Same way some evolutionists haven't thought more then a few seconds past what they've been fed. Really, that statement could easily go for both sides. Grammatical attacks are silly, (I often write "your" instead of "you're" as well as forget to use "than" and write "then" if those mistakes invalidate all of my arguments in your mind please don't waste your time here (talking to the readers not you Aron)
5. Please readers, if you have a comment to make and you're dying to make it, please start another thread. I enjoy this conversation a lot but for the benefit of future readers being able to follow the logic on both sides, please refrain from posting on this specific thread.
6. With the best of our abilities to look at the facts and realize that there is often more then one intelligent way to interpret the data. It is okay to concede that intelligent alternative views exist.
7. I'm sure we will need to define terms fairly quickly here, but since I'm asking the questions to start, we will let those emerge organically from the primordial soup of our conversation =)
Enjoy!